The Arizona Citizens Clean Elections Commission (AZCCEC) gubernatorial debate will take place on Sunday, following its postponement last week. Republican gubernatorial candidate Kari Lake promised to attend, but not Democratic candidate Katie Hobbs. It’s unlikely Hobbs will attend, given her consistent refusal to debate Lake.
Whereas before Hobbs had no Arizona PBS (AZPBS) or AZCCEC opportunities to showcase her platform due to her refusal to debate, Hobbs now has two opportunities: a special interview on Tuesday that caused the AZCCEC to split from AZPBS and the Arizona legislature to threaten to defund AZPBS, and the newly rescheduled Sunday debate.
🚨Breaking 🚨
Thank you to @AZCEC for rescheduling the gubernatorial debate with a new broadcast partner.
Arizona voters deserve this. I’m looking forward to being there. @katiehobbs, given how badly last week went for you, I hope you find the courage to join me. https://t.co/P0FCvP4M8s
Battinto Batts, dean of Arizona State University’s (ASU) Walter Cronkite School of Journalism and Mass Communication, defended the AZPBS decision to work around AZCCEC and the Arizona law on candidate debates. ASU owns AZPBS.
“It is our responsibility as a news agency to provide the public with access to the candidates who are running for office so they can learn more and make informed decisions,” said Batts.
ASU President Michael Crow concurred with Batts’ sentiment, saying that while he didn’t direct AZPBS to make a special exception for Hobbs, he did stress the importance of doing so.
“[I] did indicate that we need to continue to fulfill our mission of unbiased and nonpartisan coverage of public figures and talk to important people in the public realm like Lake and Hobbs to have the public learn of their views, even if there is no debate,” stated Crow.
AZPBS also offered Lake a one-on-one interview for Tuesday. However, Lake rejected the offer. She said she would only accept Tuesday’s invitation if it were reformatted to be a debate between her and Hobbs.
Hobbs accused Lake of avoiding difficult questions by refusing the invitation — similar to the accusations Lake leveled against her for months.
And there you have it. If Kari Lake can’t create a spectacle and has to take tough questions about her dangerous record, she won’t participate. https://t.co/A6EasmsZCF
Lake dismissed rumors that she or her supporters were planning to protest Hobbs’ interview at ASU.
Kari Lake supporters are not planning to waste their time today and “protest” at ASU. We are planning a lovely chicken dinner and candidate forum in Chandler tonight to talk about the actual issues facing Arizonans.
Even so, Hobbs accused Lake of stirring up violence against her and ASU.
Tonight, I will be appearing on Arizona PBS filmed at ASU. Kari Lake’s temper tantrum last week led to death threats and racial slurs toward their staff. Now, faculty and students are advised not to go on their own campus. I am outraged by her dangerous rhetoric. pic.twitter.com/MDhFfPcH4s
The Arizona Citizens Clean Elections Commission (AZCCEC) accused Arizona State University (ASU) President Michael Crow of playing favorites by giving Democratic gubernatorial candidate Katie Hobbs the interview she wanted. Normally, AZCCEC and ASU’s Arizona PBS station coordinate debates between candidates.
Last month, AZCCEC rejected Hobbs’ proposed alternative to a debate with Republican opponent Kari Lake: two back-to-back, individual interviews of each candidate. Since only Lake agreed to the debate terms set forth by AZCCEC, she was scheduled to have an interview in lieu of a debate on Tuesday. However, hours before Lake’s interview was to take place, AZCCEC learned that Arizona PBS (AZPBS) went behind their back to schedule a special interview with Hobbs next Tuesday — moving them to postpone Lake’s interview.
In a statement shared with multiple news outlets, Crow claimed that he wasn’t involved in a policy-level decision concerning the debate. However, he disclosed that he advised AZPBS that giving Hobbs airtime was necessary. ASU owns AZPBS.
“But I did indicate that we need to continue to fulfill our mission of unbiased and nonpartisan coverage of public figures and talk to important people in the public realm like Lake and Hobbs to have the public learn of their views, even if there is no debate,” stated Crow.
In response to Crow’s remarks, AZCCEC Executive Director Tom Collins asserted to reportersthat Crow influenced AZPBS editorial decisions.
Collins also said that it wasn’t acceptable for the AZCCEC to be involved in the kind of behavior exhibited by AZPBS.
“The issue here is the way AZPBS went about soliciting this particular interview and then having one candidate announce [it] on the day that another candidate — who had followed a specific set of rules that ASU had agreed to as well — [had their interview, which] made it look like ASU was playing favorites with candidates,” said Collins.
"The issue here is the way that @ArizonaPBS went about soliciting this particular interview … made it look like @ASU is playing favorites with the candidates. Well, that's not acceptable …"
AZPBS’ special exception for Hobbs prompted the Arizona House Republicans to take action. State Representative John Kavanagh (R-Fountain Hills) pledged in a press release to introduce legislation to sever all state ties and support of AZPBS if the station didn’t cancel Hobbs’ interview.
“It would be inappropriate for the state to continue its relationship with AZPBS, given its sabotaging of the clean elections debates that were approved by the voters,” stated Kavanagh. “The clean elections rules are clear. If a candidate refused to debate, their opponent (who is willing to debate) is eligible to have a 30-minute question and answer session.”
Kavanagh added that AZPBS was wrong for essentially lifting AZCCEC’s penalization for Hobbs. He predicted that AZPBS was setting a precedent to encourage future candidates to avoid debates.
“I believe the station’s decision to reward a candidate’s refusal to debate, by giving them free television time, is tantamount to making a partisan political contribution to their campaign,” wrote Kavanagh. “AZPBS needs to keep its thumb off the election scale and not shortchange the voters.”
Rep. @JohnKavanagh_AZ announces intent to sponsor legislation to sever state support of @AZPBS if it fails to correct troubling 11th hour decision to circumvent AZ Clean Elections Commission debate rules.
AZPBS offered Lake an interview as well, one also not arranged or approved by AZCCEC. However, Lake formally rejected that offer in a letter sent to AZPBS, Crow, and AZCCEC on Thursday. The letter, written by attorney Timothy La Sota, said that Lake would only come to the interview if it was reformatted as a debate between her and Hobbs.
“PBS & ASU have betrayed not only the Clean Elections Commission, but every voter in Arizona by going behind the backs of citizens to allow Hobbs to continue dodging a debate,” read the letter. “Any other format [than a debate] will result in the complete destruction of a 20-year tradition.”
Hobbs claimed that Lake’s refusal to the alternative interview was her opponent’s way of making a “spectacle.”
And there you have it. If Kari Lake can’t create a spectacle and has to take tough questions about her dangerous record, she won’t participate. https://t.co/A6EasmsZCF
On Thursday, the Arizona Citizens Clean Elections Commission (AZCCEC) voted to give gubernatorial opponents Katie Hobbs and Kari Lake another week to agree to a debate format. Even if the debate doesn’t take place, a Q&A session will occur on the scheduled day of the debate, October 12.
Democratic gubernatorial candidate Hobbs rejected the traditional debate setup at the end of last month, and last Friday issued a proposal to replace the debate with two separate, consecutive town halls.
AZCECC read aloud a letter from Republican gubernatorial candidate Lake refusing to accept Hobbs’ terms. Lake also requested that one of the commissioners, Amy Chan, recuse herself because she works as general counsel to Hobbs’ office. Chan did recuse herself from the discussion and vote.
New #AZGOV: @KariLake calls on @AZCCEC to reject Katie Hobbs’ counter proposal to debate:
“We are calling on the Commission to schedule the debate as planned with two podiums on stage. Kari Lake will be there to answer any & all questions from the moderator.” pic.twitter.com/iuthNUZIxc
AZCCEC rejected Hobbs’ proposal, 3-1. Only Commissioner Steve Titla voted in favor of Hobbs’ proposal.
Chairman Damien Meyer said he weighed the purpose of AZCCEC, and what is best for Arizona voters. Meyer said voter education was the most important function of AZCCEC. Meyer said it was most beneficial for voters to have a debate.
“I don’t believe the commission should accept Secretary Hobbs’ proposal of these back-to-back 30 minute town hall interviews,” said Meyer.
However, Meyer stressed that both campaigns needed to work with AZCCEC to agree on a fair debate structure. Meyer clarified that any future debate format modifications shouldn’t include content regulation. He implied that fact-checking wasn’t the role of debate moderators.
“If someone wants to make a claim, then they’re going to have to live with that claim,” said Meyer.
Commissioner Mark Kimble said he agreed with Meyer, but “only up to a point.” Kimble said there was an issue with timing, since AZCCEC usually sends a format in August. He took issue with Hobbs’ action to send a proposal last week. Kimble argued that it was unrealistic to believe that Hobbs and Lake could come to a mutual agreement.
“It’s incumbent on us to say enough. This is the format we set up,” said Kimble.
Commissioner Galen Paton concurred. He said voters needed to see a debate between the two candidates.
“If they want to do town halls they can do that somewhere else with someone else sponsoring it,” said Galen.
Titla disagreed. He said there was time for the two campaigns to work with AZCCEC to create a fair solution. Titla said he liked Hobbs’ proposal, implying that Lake didn’t meet the criteria of conducting a “fair and reasoned” debate. Titla said the “Apache way” was to give people time to speak, not to insult and speak over one another.
“There should be reasonable people talking, not speaking over each other, not insulting one another in front of people,” said Titla.
Present at the meeting were representatives of both campaigns: Nicole DeMont for Hobbs and Timothy La Sota for Lake.
DeMont said Hobbs was willing to participate in a “substantive” debate, which she said Lake wasn’t going to do. She accused Lake of wanting to create a spectacle.
“You can’t debate a conspiracy theorist,” said DeMont. “When she starts to come back to reality [then] we can have a debate.”
La Sota retorted that Hobbs’ avoidance of the debate is a “cop-out.” He said Hobbs’ proposal is merely an infomercial, not substantive. La Sota warned that AZCCEC capitulating on this debate would cause future candidates to avoid debates. La Sota added that a town hall wasn’t a debate, and therefore would undermine AZCCEC’s purpose.
Public comment heavily favored hosting a traditional debate: 13 voters desired a debate, while 3 voters said they would rather have Hobbs’ proposed town hall format or no debate at all.
Watch the entire AZCCEC meeting below:
Corinne Murdock is a reporter for AZ Free News. Follow her latest on Twitter, or email tips to corinne@azfreenews.com.
